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Gas jumps above $4

May 18, 2013

FAIRMONT — Area motorists found themselves in new territory Friday, when gas prices made a 22-cent jump to $4.19 per gallon....

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(37)

phoenix

May-18-13 6:07 AM

Hey Liberals! It is all Bush's and Cheney's fault isn't it??? Those dirty big oil guys!!! Go E85!! Oh, BioFuel ain't runnin.

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darkdruid

May-18-13 10:05 AM

This has nothing to do with the Keystone pipeline......there's plenty of oil. This is a result of refineries being offline for maintenance and taking longer than planned.

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phoenix

May-18-13 10:19 AM

Maybe we should listen to the tree huggers and spotted owl kissers. There idea to get off oil is to run their cars on*****gas or get out and push their car down the road might be cheaper. Or continue to burn our food and animal feed to make E 85. By the way, how much is E85 next to 4.19 gas today? What a joke!!!

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-18-13 9:59 PM

Well boiz driving in Southern MN today gas was 4.19 for E10 and E85 was 3.09 and to all those badmouthing E85 gas would be lots higher without that 10% in the gas.

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jmaynard

May-18-13 11:08 PM

Yeah, and you're paying 75% of the price for 67% of the fuel economy. Real good deal there.

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-19-13 11:26 AM

Add Seafoam or Stabil in the gas and you wont have any carb problems. Never had any carb problems with longterm stored gas.

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phoenix

May-19-13 11:44 AM

Put additives in my fuel too? Ya that's cheaper too. Bottom line E85 is a ripoff all the way around. Great for farmers tho. They can afford the gas guzzler pickups and even fill up with E85 twice as often as the one pumping 4 dollar gas. Thank the polititions who dolled out tax subsidies to run ethanol plants. Keep spreading that money around. And last I checked, E85 is 3.79 a gallon. Go ahead and buy it if you want.

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DickieVeesHairdresser

May-19-13 12:25 PM

1. Whose idea was it to have fewer refineries? The oil companies themselves. 2. The Keystone pipeline? So Canada can ship tar sands oil overseas. Not for us. All the risk, none of the benefit for the USA. 3. How much Ethanol is in California gas? 10%, just like here. They used to add a chemical called MTBE until it was discovered that it seeped into the groundwater and didn't dissipate.

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Peace1love2harmony3

May-19-13 5:59 PM

It is all a bunch of crap!!

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-19-13 8:21 PM

Passing thru Truman and Amboy today E10 gas 4.19 and E85 3.09 same as yesterday dont know about Fairmont price but 1.10 price gap is nice to see.

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jmaynard

May-20-13 12:30 AM

Yeah, that $1.10 price gap means you're paying 73.7% of the price per gallon - but E85 only delivers 2/3 the fuel mileage of E10. Real good deal there.

People who buy E85 are chumps.

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-20-13 4:07 AM

So what you are saying jmaynard that all people and farmers are chumps for using e85 a product that helps the local economy gives people jobs and gives a person another choice for fueling their car or pickup truck?

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jmaynard

May-20-13 9:29 AM

I'm saying that ethanol is a bad choice for fuel. We're burning our food supply instead of producing the oil we have right here in North America. Yeah, it might help a few farmers around here, but as a choice for our country as a whole, it stinks.

Ethanol simply doesn't have the energy content per unit of volume that gasoline does. That's why we burn gasoline in the first place.

And spending more and getting less makes you a chump, no matter what the reasons you claim for the choice.

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-20-13 10:21 AM

Even if you your mpg drops 5 points you will still get more miles per dollar by burning e85 because of the large 1.10 price gap. Look up the e85 price per mile website.

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jmaynard

May-20-13 11:52 AM

That's exactly the point, though. The reports I've seen from many, many people say that they get 2/3 the miles per gallon from E85 - at absolute best - that they get from E10.

If the miles per gallon are 2/3, and the dollars per gallon are 73.4%, then that results in a miles per dollar of .908 comparing E85 to E10.

Using the numbers you cite, and assuming a fuel mileage of 30 MPG on E10 to make the calculations simple, the fuel cost of driving a mile on E10 is 14 cents. The fuel cost of driving a mile on E85 at 20 MPG is 15.5 cents.

And that 20 MPG is optimistic. Ask people in the real world to compare E10 vs. E85 fuel economy. I have.

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-20-13 12:24 PM

At current price of 4.19 per gallon of e10 gas and 3.09 per gallon of e85 you stiil get more miles per dollars of fuel purchased burning e85 than e10 figuring your car is getting 30 mpg with e10 and 25 mpg burning e85 thats the point I am making. 8.091 miles per dollar for e85 and 7.160 miles per dollar for e10 even at 23 mpg with e85 at the sames prices your still are doing better burning e85.

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jmaynard

May-20-13 9:05 PM

The problem is that your example assumes E85 delivers 83% of the fuel economy of E10. It's not a fixed number of miles per gallon less; it's a percentage, and that percentage is, in the experience of everyone I've talked to about it, more like 2/3 than your 5/6. That is why E85 is a bad choice economically as long as its cost is more than 2/3 that of E10.

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-20-13 10:39 PM

I mow lawn with a 20 hp briggs since new its over ten years old never had any carb problems always use stabil never drain carb over winter and it runs like the day I bought it. Same with chainsaws and 8 hp snowblowers and generator engines. You might want to try buying your gas from another station not all gas is the same grade.

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jmaynard

May-21-13 1:16 AM

Actually, has far as I know, there's one, maybe two 91-octane pumps in town that don't have ethanol in them. They're the ones labeled "for use only in off-roiad or collector vehicles". Since my current car requires 91-octane gas, I have to watch for that and go elsewhere if the sticker is present.

And yes, pretty much all gasoline is the same grade, around here. Regardless of brand, it only comes from a handful of refineries.

The difference in fuel mileage between ethanol and gasoline isn't a matter of fuel quality, either. It's a matter of basic chemistry. Ethanol has 2/3 the energy per unit of volume of gasoline. Octane has nothing to do with that.

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Meximo70

May-21-13 11:13 AM

wow. this isn't a political issue at all...this is big oil issue. This is a greed issue. if the arabs aren't screwing us over, the domestic oil companies are. the fact that a few refineries are closed for maintenence shouldn't effect their profit margin. it's summer. the price goes up just before memorial day. coincidence? doubt it. but there's nothing we can do about it except complain. we need gas to get to work,etc. they know they got us by the cajones.

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-21-13 6:00 PM

Burning a blend of e10 and e85 mpg drops only 5 and with the higher octane rating of 105 to 110 with the e85 the engine never pings and runs much smoother and cleaner burning compared to only running on e10 and the 1.10 price spread makes it even better. In the near future MN will have more blender pumps to give people more fuel choices.

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jmaynard

May-21-13 8:38 PM

It's not an absolute number of miles per gallon. It's a percentage. A drop of 5 MPG is meaningless unless you say what it's a drop of 5 MPG from, and in what vehicle.

Further, the higher octane is useless unless your engine is designed to take advantage of it. Octane is not a measure of how much energy is in the fuel, or how good it is in any particular sense. A higher octane rating only allows the engine to use a higher compression ratio without detonation of the fuel/air mixture before the spark. My car needs 91 octane fuel or higher because it has an 11:1 compression ratio. That lets it produce more power and burn fuel more efficiently, no matter what fuel you feed it. I can't use E85, or even E15, though, because the fuel system wasn't designed for it, and that much alcohol will damage things.

But you can't just twist a knob or change a valve and increase your engine's compression ratio to offset the loss of efficiency in using E85. You have to change major components.

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-21-13 9:18 PM

Higher octane fuels reduce and in some cases get rid of pinging spark knock anyone should know that. High compression engine or plain everyday barebone stock engine.

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jmaynard

May-21-13 9:44 PM

Sure, high octane fuels reduce detonation (pinging). However, any engine built since about 1995, and many earlier, have sensors that help the engine computer adjust the spark timing to eliminate detonation even on substandard fuels. It's needed to improve engine reliability and let the engine computer control the exact timing for better performance and lower emissions.

What that means is that we're not in the 1970s any more. Using higher octane fuels in an engine that does not need them - which includes any engine made for gasoline - does nothing at all for you. If your engine won't ping on 87 octane, or even if it needs 91 to not ping, running the 96 E85 gives you (no, it's not 105; even the EPA says it's well under 100) will not change your engine's performance.

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SouthernMNFarmer

May-21-13 10:42 PM

Well in my vehicle which happens to be a 2001 runs much better off a blend of e10 89 octane and 105 octane e85. No pinging smoother idle and less power loss on hills. 5 mpg loss and the 1.10 price spread better performance its worth it to me.

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